Belonging, Service, and UNBLOCKED Leadership: Finding Clarity in Career Paths and Career Pivots
Episode Details
Transcript
What happens when the person who is supposed to hold it all together is quietly falling apart?
In this episode, Greg and Whitney talk with John Neufeld, Executive Director at House of Friendship, about what it means to lead through heartbreak, show up for others in hard times, and stay grounded in purpose when life feels anything but stable.
John shares how his early experience as an immigrant — feeling like an outsider, like he didn’t belong — shaped everything that came next. It's what led him to a life of service and to building spaces where others feel seen, valued, and supported.
He opens up about the emotional toll of leadership during times of crisis, the weight we all carry, and the buffers that make resilience possible. Along the way, he shares the metaphors and mindsets that helped him find strength — like the idea of the backpack we all carry and how to keep moving forward even when it feels impossibly heavy.
In this conversation, John shares:
- How the “backpack” metaphor helped him carry loss without letting it weigh him down
- Why some people bounce back from adversity and others don’t — and the role that buffers play
- What it really means to belong and why it’s central to the work he does
- The 3 S’s that guide his leadership: Story, Strengths, and Spirit
- Why feeding your soul is not a luxury but a leadership essential
This one’s for anyone who’s been carrying something heavy, who’s felt alone in their grief, or who just needs to hear that they’re not the only one figuring it out as they go.
Every other Thursday, we talk to people who got UNBLOCKED. You'll hear stories about finding clarity, career paths, career pivots and living with intention. Our guests tell us how they realized something had to change, made bold moves, and built lives that feel more aligned, more alive, and more intentional. We’ll share some of our own stories too, because we’re right here, figuring it out like everyone else.
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John
When I was younger, I used to think that the race is against everybody else. The race is against maybe people in your sector. The race is maybe against people your age. And as I get older, I come to realize, the race isn't against others. The race is actually between our own two ears and what we think of ourselves. And, yeah, for many years, I to remind myself, I had a a line that said, the only place I've ever truly been trapped was between my own two ears. Whitney
Hi. I'm Whitney. Greg
And I'm Greg. Welcome to the Unblock Yourself podcast. Whitney
Too many of us are stuck on autopilot. We're following a path that seems like it wasn't our choice, leaving us feeling stuck even when life looks good on the outside. Greg
In each episode, we sit down with people who escaped autopilot and are unblocked. They share the stories about what they're doing now and what they did to get there. Whitney
You'll leave feeling inspired by the stories you hear, but more importantly, you'll have real tactical steps to get unblocked in your own life. John is someone Greg's known for a long time, back when Greg's late wife, Allison, was serving at House of Friendship. She was a key member of John's team, and they worked closely together at House of Friendship or HOF for short, where John has been the executive director for the past fifteen years. HOF is a nonprofit organization in our community that supports people experiencing poverty, addiction, homelessness, or food insecurity with the ultimate vision of building a community where everyone can belong and thrive. What's cool about interviewing people we already know is that we get to dig a little deeper, ask questions we probably wouldn't ask during a casual dinner, especially when the kids are around. We loved this conversation with John. He opens up about growing up as an immigrant, coming from the wrong country at the wrong time, and what it was like to feel like he didn't belong. Those early experiences shaped his drive to do the work he does now, helping others feel seen, supported, and have a true sense of belonging. John's honest, thoughtful, and full of reminders that even the strongest leaders are carrying things that you can't always see. His life is all about serving others, and he shares a concept that's called the three s's that you don't wanna miss. I've gotta be honest. Usually, when Greg and John get together, there's a lot more chirping and banter between the two of them, but they kept it pretty polite for the podcast, mostly. We're excited for you to hear this one. Hope you enjoy this conversation with John Neufeld. Greg
John, you're a pretty big deal. We've got the opportunity to sit down with with you today. We've known each other, you and I, John, for a long time. But the cool thing about this sort of format is we get to ask questions that I've never really dug into with you. And so I'm I'm really appreciative that you took some time to join us for our conversation today. John
Honored to be here. Our, lives have crossed paths due to some unusual and challenging situations. And, yeah, I'm looking forward to this conversation with both of you. I've learned a lot from, both Greg and Whitney and, honored to be part of this podcast. Whitney
Well, thanks for joining. And so, John, as part of your role as executive director of major nonprofit in our region, obviously you do a ton of public speaking. So in preparation for this conversation, we chatted, two days ago now, and you had mentioned that you have sort of a if you were live in person, you had a standard introduction that you would do, and it would involve a visual of a boy and a bike and a banana seat. So you mentioned that. Since this is audio and we don't have that visual, maybe you could, kind of verbally paint us that picture and that introduction, and tell us a bit about that kid. John
Yeah. I have this picture of myself as a ten year old, and I'm wearing a three piece brown suit. I look like my grandmother just gave me a bowl cut, which she actually might have, in that moment. And I have this beautiful brand new bicycle, and it's it's not only that it has a banana seat, but it has, like, a rearview mirror. It has a front headlight. It's got rear signals. Like, it was just it was a big deal. And anyone that looks at that picture would think this kid's got it all. Like, he's got it all figured out. It's life is gonna be grand. And and the challenge with that picture is that it's a it's a lie. I wasn't a happy kid at that point. And the the reason behind that was I had immigrated a few years before to Canada, and I was from the wrong country at the wrong time. And so my first day on the playground, I was told that I was a piece of crap because of where I was from and the language I spoke. And I sorta got that message repeated throughout my childhood. And when you get that kind of messaging day in and day out as a kid about things you can't control and they don't make sense, that, truly impacts you. And it's what's led me to do the kind of work that I do today. When I got to host a friendship, we're a large not for profit. We serve over forty thousand people a year with food, housing, addiction treatment, community development work. And the people we serve all get that message every day. There's something wrong with you. You're a homeless bum. You're an addict. You know, I don't like the country you're from or the, you know, the kids and youth we serve don't feel like they belong. And I get to do something about that together with, you know, hundreds of my colleagues, volunteers, donors in our community. We get to rewrite the script and say, no. You do matter. You do belong. And so it's, incredibly, yeah, incredibly, I'm grateful for the work that I get to do as a result of my own story. Greg
John, I think the work that you do in the community is challenging work. It's hard work. But you always have this tendency to be upbeat and positive, and that's something that I've always admired about you and the time that we've known each other. But just to step back a little bit, we've known we've known each other, as we said, for a long time. And in that time, we've navigated a lot of challenges together, and you've navigated a lot of challenges yourself. How we first connected, of course, was the interview that you had with Allison years and years ago, and she spent years working for you as a friendship. And then as part of my story that I have shared here before, losing Allison in twenty twenty, that was a a very deep and personal loss for you alongside the challenging work you're doing in twenty twenty, further loss later that year with your dad, and then even more so that carrying on into twenty twenty three where our community lost another leader who is very close to you in similar circumstances to to Alison. And so you've had some of these hard things that face you, but you you seem to maintain some degree of of an upbeat and positive attitude. How does how do these experiences overlap, and how do they impact you? John
Well, before the pandemic even started, to get the, news that, Allison, had brain cancer, that it was just, limited time, was incredibly devastating. Allison was, one of the most incredible leaders I've had the chance to serve with. So that was, pretty devastating. And then I think in less than a month, the announcement was made about, the global pandemic, and so we just jumped into that. You know, three months later, Allison passes away. And, you know, we're all trying to navigate the beginning of the pandemic. House of Friendship is an essential service, so none of what we were doing could get shut down, and and we had to, like, just keep figuring stuff out. I was worried about you know, we had, at that time, probably close to three hundred staff, just keeping them safe. Yeah. At the end of that year, we weren't allowed to go see our family at Christmas time. And, on Boxing Day, I got the call that my dad had a massive heart attack, and a week later, we, took him off life support. A month, after my dad's funeral, we had a devastating fire, here in our community where we we're sheltering a hundred and thirty people experiencing homelessness. And, it just it it never stopped. And I wasn't able to grieve, Allison, because I was too worried about, you know, others. And I had like when you're in a leadership role, you gotta look after everyone else. And and, and so the cumulative of that, you know, got to a point where, yeah, it kicked out some of that positivity, Greg. And, you know, for the first time in my life, I when I woke up, I I didn't, I wasn't jumping out of bed ready to chat tackle the the day. And, and so that was good for me in the sense of, learning what that felt like because I know a lot of people struggle with that or, you know, they they don't wanna get out of bed in the morning. I had never experienced that, but all the the cumulative pieces of that, they yeah. They did come come down on me, and, it was incredibly challenging to navigate. But I still have to show up, because I know as a leader, your team members look, to signals from the leaders and how they're doing. And, so it was, yeah, it was incredibly challenging time and pushed me to my edges. Greg
And I do remember, I think, when we got into twenty twenty one is we discontinued our friendship and that deepened. And after you had lost your dad, something did it felt like it switched for you. And I remember you sharing this idea of seeing a counselor and working through that grieving process because it wasn't just one thing. As you said, it was multiple things all colliding. You talked about this idea of that that had been shared with you that you had picked up of of a backpack and this notion of putting things on, and you have this choice you have to make. And I I thought it was a beautiful visual and metaphor for your process of that, called the grief, but also just the the resilience you need to build to to navigate that. Would love for you to talk a bit about that or share a bit about that because I think it was something that stood out to me, and it felt really relevant to this idea of building resilience and navigating challenges. John
Yeah. Yeah. I think that, I I thought I was reaching a breaking point, so I reached out to actual therapist who was a grief counselor and was trying to work through all the different, losses and and grief. And she, yeah, she gave us beautiful metaphor of a backpack, and she said, you know, as we go through life, all these different things that happen to us, I I mean, they go in their pack and they add some weight to it. And she said, you know, you can't undo the fact that your dad passed away. And so she said, but that, you know, that what now you have in your backpack, it can either make you stronger or it can just kinda weigh you down. And then as I was kinda thinking about what, like, my dad meant to me, the relationship we had, there's something about that visual that just really helped me. And I was like, no. I'm actually stronger as a result of being his son, what he taught me, what he learned, and still grieved my dad. But instead of it weighing me down, it actually strengthened, who I was. And I because I know I'm a better person, because of being his son and what he taught me, what he modeled for me. And so that was just a really helpful metaphor at that time for me, and and gave me strength to kind of, move forward in the midst of my own grieving and loss. Greg
Last thing on this, John, because I think you came through that experience and there was that growth. Can you can you think about or characterize what puts you in that position towards growth versus what you see happen to so many people where it it actually sends them into a place where they're truly, alone and they're seeking services and needing support from organizations, like what you do at House of Friendship and the Shelter Services and others. John
Yeah. Buffers is an incredibly important, concept. We talk a lot about House of Friendship. And, the concept of buffers came to me through a lot of reading research, but also just through my own personal journey. And I was trying to figure out why is it that some of, like, why is it that two people can go through the same level of adversity, crisis, trauma, and, for, you know, for one, it, they seem to be able to get through it, and and the other one doesn't. And and so that has I I've I've been trying to figure that out for years, and then the concept of buffers came to me. And and, basically, the concept of buffers is very simple. It it's, you know, lots of children grow up in a very terrible, adverse, environments. You know, there's a lot of kids grow up in poverty, and that has impact on people, or there's just a lot of people have really unthinkable things happen to them in their life. And I remember my late father saying, you know, what's wrong with the people you serve? Like, look at me. I grew up during World War two. I had my father taken away. I grew up with hunger. I grew up with, you know, all these devastating things. You know? I came to Canada as an immigrant. I worked hard, and, you know, what's wrong with those people? And I remember telling my dad is that the difference between him and the peep some of the people we serve is that they never had a buffer in their life. And what that and for my dad's case, it was in the height of the war when there was no food and there was just, like, a half a loaf of bread. His mother gave it to him, and she went hungry. She loved him. She cared for him. And the folks we often serve just never had a buffer from the time they were born. Life just threw one thing at him, and there was no one there to come and buffer it. And a buffer could be that teacher that notices, hey. This kid's always coming to school late or hungry, and I'm gonna just do something extra. Or the boy scout leader, the girl scout lead, that just somebody in their life that just takes notice them, sees them, and and does something. Or, you know, the neighbor that says, hey. This family is struggling. We're gonna drop off, a casserole at their house. And and that's so much of the difference between there's lots of people who faced adversity. I had one individual come and visit us and, said, you know, I used to look down upon the people you serve. Like, I had an unthinkable childhood about all these traumas, but look at me. I got this incredible job at the university. I'm in a stable relationship. And he said, John, no one ever explained buffers to me. And he said, I went home that night, and he said, I reviewed my life. And as terrible as my upbringing was and, like, family life, but I had all these buffers in my life, these people in my life that just looked out for me, helped me. And so the concept of buffers is hugely important, and it's important for us as, you know, in leadership roles too. You know, I I I described that situation of of kind of in the pandemic and just I hit levels of low both personally and professionally that I had never experienced in my life and just that level of loss together, and I had buffers. That's how I was it wasn't because I'm some superhuman or I did something. It was I had buffers in my life. I had really meaningful connections. I had, meaningful people, intentional, people who were living intentionally in my life that were encouraging, supporting, listening. You know, I went to a counselor. We we put these things in place, friends and family, that that were my buffers, that I would not have been able to navigate this without. Whitney
Yeah. That certainly resonates for me. I I, I definitely had buffers in my life too that helped kind of, you know, shape who I am now, at this stage of my life. So I can definitely relate to that. So one thing about I'd love for you to talk a bit about House of Friendship and thinking about their vision, which your vision is a healthy community where everyone can belong and thrive. Like, what does that mean to you? John
Whitney, it means on on two levels. Number one, if you're a staff member at House of Friendship that you can come as your whole self. Who you are, your background, your experience, all that that we ask that you bring your whole self so that you can feel like you can belong. And then those that we serve, a place of belonging where they can bring their whole self, they can have healing, and that they are told that they matter and that they're invited back into community. Because often the people we serve have been put on the edges, you know, the unwanted and the unwell. And so it it's, yeah, it's incredibly powerful to to be told that you matter and that you belong. And that is sort of at the core of what we do. We do it through different tools, whether it's addiction treatment, whether it's providing housing, whether it's providing food, whether it's providing, you know, work with children and youth, newcomers, refugees. The common piece is that those we serve get told every day they don't belong. And so we get to do something about that. That's not easy work. It's incredibly challenging. But, when you do it with really good, passionate people, it's a lot of fun. Whitney
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When I was younger, I used to think that the race is against everybody else. The race is against maybe people in your sector. The race is maybe against people your age or, whatever that you were comparing to. And as I get older, I come to realize, the race isn't against others. The race is actually between our own two ears and what we think of ourselves, how we make sense of the world. And, yeah, for many years, I to remind myself, I had a a line that said the only the only place I've ever truly been trapped was between my own two ears. Just just as a reminder of of, how many of the things that we get blocked in life are really between our own two ears and and that narrative that we have going. And, so just wanted to constantly challenge that. And, you know, a lot of us in leadership, imposter syndrome, or just different messages we got when we were younger, how we view ourselves, can really block us in in moving forward. Greg
Truly love that, John. The idea of feeling blocked and it feeling like it's something that is outside of you, but, really, it's just so much so much of it is personal, and it's the narratives that we tell ourselves. So you've been in leadership roles for twenty years. Much to my chagrin, you're showered in accolades, you know, top forty under forty in our community even though I'm sure you were, like, forty two or forty three at the time, you know, honored as a as an alumni, like prestigious alumni. I think the governor general, you got to shake their hand at some point in time. So you've done all these incredible things in your your life of leadership. And so what are some of the things that you have found useful as a leader to to fight that battle between your two between your two ears? John
Yeah. A couple of things. One of the best leadership advices advice I was given, I think it's from John one of John Maxwell's leadership books is constantly look to add value to other people's lives. I have so many people that ask me, like, oh, how do I become a CEO? Or how do I move up the ladder? And it's like, don't chase that. Just constantly look to add value to other people's lives. Leadership is is not about a position title. Leadership is about serving others, wanting to invest in others, and make a difference for others. And so, yeah, for whatever reason, when you're in the not for profit, you do get a lot of accolades, which I sometimes bristle at. I think there's a lot of people out there that work very, very hard, and I don't think I'm any different than anybody else. I've tried to do my craft, as well as I can, but, I look around at my, friends who are entrepreneurs or leading other organizations who work incredibly hard. And, so I'll, I'll leave it at that for now. And I think sorry. The other one, Greg, I was thinking about, was we have to constantly feed ourselves as, leaders and, through different learning, through conversations with others. We gotta, you know, continue to inspire ourselves, feed our, fuel our buckets so that we can give to others, because there are a lot of demands, for those of us who are in leadership. But it's on us to ensure that we look after ourselves and, make sure we're fueled. Greg
On that, you reminded me of something that we've talked about over the years, John, and you shared with with Whitney and I the other day. This I think it was a concept of three s's. Something about not being afraid of your story. I'd love to to have you share that because it it actually does tie nicely back to that kid with the banana seat bike not belonging, and you're doing this work now where it's all about helping others to belong. There's something about your story that kinda ties those two pieces together really nicely. John
Well, there's actually three s's. You really botched it up, Greg. So why don't I help you correct that? So, yeah, the three s's are are things I challenge folks, whether you're in leadership or not, just to consider. And the first one is story. Each one of us has a story and know your story. And a lot of, folks have some challenges in their story. There's some adversity in that story, and you have a choice, to look at your story and say, wow. That was really hard and, you know, what was me? Or how do you turn some of those challenges in your life as part of what what shapes you, what alerts you to things, what, gives you some of that grit that you have. And, you know, if I didn't have some of the challenges early on in my life, I wouldn't be aware of, what it's like for the people we serve. Right? And so what is it in that story that can fuel you to help others or or do things for others? So I think pay attention to your story. Second, I I talk about your strengths. All of us have incredible strengths that we were given, and it takes time to figure them out. And, you know, there's lots of tools out there. We use strengths finder at House of Friendship so that we know everyone's top five strengths who serves at House of Friendship, what makes you awesome, and spending some time to understand what are your superpowers. And, I think when you tap into your strengths, you can add value to others, and you can be a gift to others. And then the last one is feed your spirit. I think especially in leadership, we often forget that we have to, fuel ourselves and and feed your spirit, and and that could be could be spending time in nature, could be art. It what whatever fuels you or feeds you, take the time to do that. Often, that's the stuff we kinda throw off. And so I don't have time for that, you know. My schedule is too busy. And so that yeah. I often encourage folks to really focus on the three s's, their story, their strengths, and their spirit. Whitney
Yeah. I I love that so much. The I saw this quote recently. It said, if you don't tell your story, someone else will, and you might not not like their version. So I think that's Greg and I have both been opening up, as you know, in various ways sharing stories, so certainly resonates. John
You probably experienced this. The power of sharing stories is, so many people think that their experience was unique or their adversity or their challenge, and it's like every every human has had to climb a mountain that none of us are aware of. And, just because they're walking around with a big smile on her face doesn't mean there's not a different story there. And the more we we we share stories, the more we give permission for others to be to open up and be their authentic selves. Greg
What's been fascinating is having been through the the experience of loss and grief and then getting to a place where I feel comfortable to share some of that. There's been this magic that's happened in sharing a bit of the story, and I know this has been true for you too, Whitney, where people go, oh, I they wanna share their story and they wanna just they they see you as somebody who they can connect with and who they can be served by in a way. And I although it's been a journey and it's been a a terrible thing that's happened, what a privilege it is to have the opportunity to tell a story and then to be able to support others. So I think that's powerful in the essence, and I think people do forget the importance of including themselves as a character in the the work that they do to serve the world because you've gotta be a character in your own story, in your own work as well, I think. John
Well and, Greg, imagine, I'd learned so much from you that here you were in your early thirties, three young children and navigating, that your wife is about to die. And then, obviously, when she did pass away, I learned so much from you. You know, in some ways, you were teaching me how to, work with grief. Little did I know that I would need to apply, some of, you know, what you taught me just months later when when my dad passed. And so, it's it's interesting how our stories intersect when we allow them or when we share them, with others. There was a moment there that we were sitting on your porch because it was the pandemic, and we were planning Allison's funeral. I think you had about six or seven friends, and we were trying to figure out how do you plan a funeral at the beginning of a pandemic when we weren't allowed to meet. And you were telling the story about how I don't I don't I don't know which one of your sons had asked you, like, just an impossible question that there was just no answer to. And I was like, I I can't imagine even being in a situation like this and having, like, a four or five year old son asking me that kind of question about their mom passing. And you gave this, like, profound, beautiful answer. And I looked at you and I said, how did you come up with that? Because I know you're not smart enough to actually have have come up with that on your own. You're like, oh, no. I didn't know that at all. I've I've just been going to therapy, and and she prepared me for this answer. And I just said what she told me, and we had a good laugh at that. But the fact that and then you said to me, John, I know this stuff is going to catch up to me. So that's why I reached out for help. And I went to a counselor because otherwise, if I was gonna ignore this or bury this, like, I knew it was gonna get me. And so you were getting that help, throughout. And, yeah, that was one of, one of the many things you taught me during that time period. Greg
It's a gracious reflection back, John. I was fortunate to be introduced to somebody who could offer that help, and it set the stage for what would be helpful in the future. And what you just described, it it hits on this concept in psychology called post traumatic growth. And these two researchers coined it in the nineties and then published work around it from the University of North Virginia in two thousand four. And the the notion that bad things happen to people is a universe. Like, we all know that. That's life. Some people experience this growth from those bad things that happen in their lives. Why? And the two things that were foundational to the model of getting to a place where you can experience these five different dimensions of growth were the the ability to process the hard thing, whether that's just through reflection or just sitting in it, navigating through it, being forced, like, pushed through it as opposed to avoiding it. And the second was having a community of support, some sort of network of resources there that can facilitate the opportunity for you to experience the growth. And if you don't have some network that comes in and offers support, you're into post traumatic stress, and you're just stuck. And you'll never get unstuck. The processing needs to happen to get to the growth. John
You you too had asked me the other day, like, how did you unblock, or what did you do? And and I thought, I didn't do anything. It's and that's also part of the challenge is there's these messages from all the self help books and everything, like, do this, do that. And it's it's like and I got a feel for the person who's feeling blocked because they're like, oh, maybe I'm not trying hard enough or I'm not smart enough. And and and the reality is that unblocking actually happens through the environment you put yourself in, not your own, willpower or any of that. And instead of working harder, like, yeah, reaching out to you guys and being part of one of those groups at Unblock. Right? For me, it was I got a personal trainer. I got a counselor. We got an executive coach at work. Like, if I if those if I didn't have those three things in my environment on top of a supportive, you know, spouse and family and, friends, there's no way I would have made out. I I made it out of the last few years. But thanks to the environment, thanks to those people, yeah, I feel stronger than ever. And I think about the people that don't have that, that, you know, lose a loved one and don't have that community to rely on, or don't have the supportive workplace, that says, I don't care what's going on in your personal life. You show up to work. You do the thing. You you, you block the rest out. I I I can't I can't imagine that. Or not having the enabling space and safe space to process just everything going on in the world. We need each other. We need community. And and maybe the way community looks in today's concept is this part we haven't figured it out. I think in the olden days, it was just easy. We had a lot more, whether it was faith communities, whether it was, community spaces. It it's harder to create those spaces in today's world even though we have way more mechanisms, way more tools. So, yeah, that's why I'm excited about what the two of you are doing. Whitney
Thank you, John. That means a lot. What a gift. John, honestly, thank you so much for, for being here and having this conversation with us. We do like to ask one question, and, we're always kinda on the lookout for new podcasts and books and different things. So is there something, a book or a a podcast or something that you found very impactful that you'd recommend? John
Oh, there's a few things that I just wanna, kinda in response to that. So one of the things I do every day is I actually have three quick blogs. And it it to be honest, it's not even about I don't want someone say, oh, I gotta get those three. It's just I have one blog. It's a short thing on leadership that I get every day. I get another blog, from Seth Godin's. He I I find he challenges my creative thinking. He gets me to look at the world a little differently, and then I get a third one more of a a spiritual part. And so because I want those three parts of me activated every day. I and and some days it's busy, and it's like, oh my gosh. This is the last thing I need is these three emails in that long pile. But it's the discipline of every day that I'm getting myself to think about those different parts of me. And and, you know, the leadership stuff. There's just we need to hear different messages at different times. And, you know, spiritually, regardless of what you believe, I think we have a spiritual component to ourselves and to feed our spirit in some ways to be thinking about things outside of ourselves in the broader. And, yeah, I'd, you know, I I try to be innovative in my leadership, but if you wanna be innovative, you gotta be feeding that creative side or or or viewing the world differently. And then, yes, every Sunday, I get Shane Parrish's, Farnham Street because I I I love, Shane's kind of encouragement to think about how we're thinking. I think in today's context, if we don't think about the way we're thinking or the way we're feeding our mind and the info and all the different channels and all the different noise, I think we're gonna get swallowed up. You know, our phones are a constant distraction, and I I think to be live intentionally, to get unblocked, I think one has to, think about how they're thinking. And it's it's a it's a weird concept. And then from a book's perspective, I'm a big Chip and Dan Heath fan. I have found their books very helpful. I think the the the the practical examples they use in their books and just the kinds of things that we all, you know, change management, public speaking, decision making. Like, they just I I love the way they bring social psychology in, to teach us, these things that we can apply in our personal life daily and also professionally in the things that we do. Greg
Yeah. We we like Shane Barish, and Farnam Street and what he's got to share there. So that's that's a great one. All those are great recommendations. John, as we as we said at the beginning, you're a you're a pretty big deal. And so having the opportunity to lock you down for, jeez, in forty five minutes of time. Send our gratitude to your team of of handlers and let them know that we appreciate it. Truly, you are doing such important work in the community. I mean, it it translates to, I think, our our country as a whole. And so just so appreciative for you sharing your thoughts, making the time. And you you really are a different kind of leader, not just in the nonprofit sector, but I think in the region and across the country. And, just really grateful to know you and have you as a part of the conversation. So thank you for being here. John
Greg and Whitney, thank you so much with what you're doing, with this, but also with Vienna Waits and the the risk that the two of you took, for the sake of, investing and inspiring others. I I just have a lot of deep respect for that. I I know I'm already learning lots from the what you're putting out there, and, I just hope it continues to grow and, impact more people. Greg
Thank you for listening to the Unblock Yourself podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow and rate the podcast. Your ratings and feedback mean the world to us. We'd love to stay connected with you via our biweekly newsletter called the Vienna five, where we share ideas and advice that we found helpful on our own journey to live with more intention. You can also find us on LinkedIn and Instagram. For those Gen z listeners out there, no, we're not on TikTok. But if enough of you ask for it, we'll just have to do it at some point. The links to find us on social are in the show notes. The Unblock Yourself podcast is edited and produced by Bespoke Productions Hub. Thank you for being here. 
